Bruce, what I described, was what I meant. As far as the dealing with the negative and uninformed image of propaganda, as I mentioned previously, I position and offer a service that is, “the ‘ANTIDOTE’ for propaganda.” What I do is completely different and much more effective than either advertising or PR. I find it interesting that few, if any, people in the advertising or PR business really understand what propaganda is, and how it actually works; that has always amazed me. An interesting side bar regarding the name Planet Propaganda, is how that name describes what the state of image, persuasion, and influence environment is world wide today, and how propaganda is everywhere and how prevalent lies are compared to the truth (and why all of this is so good for my approach and business).

M - Yeah, in order to appeal to business speak, I think "relationship" morphed to "partner" in order to sound more solid or committed. What you describe is a strategic relationship, not a partnership. How do you get around the negative impression "propoganda" brings to mind? It your definision, is propoganda somewhere between advertising and PR? I'm not sure how you're defining it. The first time I heard a company use the term was when Planet Propoganda (madison, wi) changed to that name back in 1999. I thought it was unusual but bold and differentiating at the same time.

Bruce, I believe that a ‘Strategic partner’ is yet another politically correct attempt to “have ones cake and eat it too”. When someone renames something, a whole new meaning tends to come along with the new name. Meanwhile it’s the same-ole- same-ole; in different clothes, met to be a disguise. Is this genuine, no; is this an attempt at some type of subversion, yes. Meanwhile the grease ball image and bad stereotype of the advertising business gets more fuel put on its fire. That is one of the main reasons why I moved away from the advertising agency business model. I refer to my services and position myself in a much different way that most do. I do not want to be their partner (we are not married, nor in business together). I am what I am: a hired gun, an ace in the hole, a second opinion, who one calls to fix a serious problem, find a solution, and help them compete better, or who they finally use, when they are tired of the same old shit, and when they need an antidote for propaganda. I am basically in the propaganda arena, not the advertising, marketing, or communications business. Big difference! I deal with image, persuasion, and influence; in a much different way, than the rest of the people at Adholes do. That difference, allows me to operate differently; and if I may add, more effectively. You see, propaganda is much more powerful and effective than advertising. I create trust with my clients, by being trust worthy and by demonstrating how my unique approach can and will work. It does not happen overnight, and it must be reinforced everyday, in every action. I do not bullshit people, I tell it like it is, I tell the good and the bad, the upside and the down side, I deliver quality that we can both be proud of and provide ideas that help make things happen. I am consistent and accountable and when I fuck up, I am the first to admit it. I do not make the same mistakes twice, or stupid mistakes or big mistakes. I also pay for my mistakes, or do no

"As far as clients valuing their agencies as partners is wishful thinking at best". "Strategic Partner" usually means strategic consultant in my experience, not a true partner. Until agencies accept true accountability for their strategic decisions, companies will never ask them to the board room table. Perhaps an ad agency who take their payment as a percentage of revenue growth for their client may have a chance to be a full partner - what do you think?

Capers, true discernment is a talent. One either has it or they don't, this cannot be learned, nor does it grow on trees. Otherwise, everything would be tasteful and it would work the way is was suppose to work, which it clearly does not. I agree that trust is everything. The single most important ingredient in a relationship between a client and their agency is always trust. Problem is, how many of the people is our business would you trust; and you're an insider? That's our problem, the sterotype of the advertising business is the polar opposite of trust. Car salesmen have a better image in poll ratings. The many grease balls in our business have always caused problems for those few with integrity. As far as clients valuing their agencies as partners is wishful thinking at best, more often than not a myth; particularly today. We both know we are only as good as our last venture, there is no true loyalty in this business anymore. It is purely the what have you done for me lately mindset that prevails. Plus, in reality we are not partners in a legal or business sense; just vendors of advice, image, persausion, and influence.

Capers - you're exactly right IMHO. This project to which I'm referring was one of those that erode that trust rather than build it. I think the biggest problem was the team was too green. They lacked the insite veterans like You, Marc or Michael would have given. This was a very large agency that probably subscribes to the "hire young and burn them out" human resource strategy.

Talent is one thing and discernment is another. The real culprit I see is clients don't truly value agencies as partners. There is no trust. To do truly great work, a client and agency must trust each other so much, that when something is bad, you can say, that's not very good and here's why. I've had client relationships both ways and the better work always comes out of relationships that involve trust.

"maybe it was a relatively small portion of the budget so it didn’t need to pass scrutiny." I think it also comes down to someone telling the parents their kid is ugly. I couldn't do it personally.

The rarest talent in the world, is knowing the difference between good and bad. Being able to make the correct value judgement in: concepts, in the things that concepts become, in the people who have the ideas or the people who make the things, in whatever. Bruce, your point illustrates my point, and shows why this talent is so rare, and what happens when it's presence is absent from a business situation.