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Marc, "Oh i write too" does not sound convincing at all, but i get your point. Im sure that you will learn from your mistakes.
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I think Marc's comments about talent/knowledge are true regardless of work experience or chronological age.
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Rick, many agencies rely on smoke and mirrors as their main asset, hence the problem. And as Dana said, they may not be the company you want to work for anyway. I have the problem that I know how to and like to do a lot of things. I've been everything from a designer, to an art director to a copywriter and now with this site and others that I run, a marketing director as well. Do you think I'd ever find an agency who's smart enough to leverage all these talents? Unlikely. I was an AD at a big firm and I said "Oh, I write too." And they said "We have copywriters already."
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I agree with the others, and have but one thought to add. If companies you've interviewed with are afraid to add "new blood," then perhaps those aren't the type of companies you want to work for anyway.
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Wednesday, February 23, 2005. 12:33PM
by
x x
A wise person once said: "If youth but knew, if old but could." Rick, we're in that perfect space right in between, so use it as a strength and make it work for you. You have the network and the lessons kids can only dream about, in this career or crossover.
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Wednesday, February 23, 2005. 11:20AM
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Kim S
Interesting... "vedy" interesting... I was in a situation where I had a boss who was - to put it lightly - not interested in having me around. I went over her head and was told that the company had "invested" so much in my training over the years, that they didn't take the situation lightly. Needless to say - I'm still here. Experience and age do count for something in my book, but keeping up with "today's" new technology is key. There is a market out there, and companies wise enough to know the benefits.
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Wednesday, February 23, 2005. 11:09AM
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Rick Weber
Perhaps. I did work with Doner for 5 years but it was a long time ago. Still seems shortsighted to me and illogical since agencies rely solely on human capital as their main asset to sell to clients.
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Most agencies are not going to take the risk on someone with no agency experience--they even won't hire people with very related experience from the client side. The economy still isn't great, there are a lot of talented people who do have agency experience out of work, and agencies, who don't want to be bothered teaching a new person their way of doing things will hire those with agency experience first. I'm not saying this is right-it's just how it is.
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I'm "hearing" seniority/age in two ways here, Rick ~1. experience/credentials ~2. chronological age. There is more I might write; but won't prattle on. :::feeling in a somewhat "clipped" state of Spirit today::: However, if my initial assessment is correct, then one must separate those perceptions and focus on what one can do and what one cannot do to "educate" those who might have those perceptions ~ if one feels compelled to become (for a time) The Teacher. In addition, with the first (above) consideration there is the "in house" and "stranger danger" syndrome. Anyone who can find their way through that one begins to have an ear that might listen. Regarding the second consideration ~ there is no way 'round when one was born. :::shoulder shrug::: If a potential client seems to have difficulty with my chronological age (and I notice that difficulty) ~ I speak to that. If they're still having difficulty ~ ah well...
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Wednesday, February 23, 2005. 09:44AM
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Rick Weber
Thanks for the feedback Alexis. But Chicago is where I must remain!
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Wednesday, February 23, 2005. 09:44AM
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Rick Weber
Easier to agree with your POV below as a creative than as an account guy. Creatives with great portfolios and reputations can carry it with them more easily than account management or strategists. The bigger problem is that Chicago is oversaturated with good out of work talent. Between mergers, closings and account losses to other cities, the town is deluged with folks like me. So no matter how good your credentials, there is always someone with worthy qualifications who will take a low salary to get in the door. I for one am unwilling to compromise my years of learning, experience and expertise simply because someone else will. Eventually I will be fortunate enough to team up with another organization who values these attributes and we will grow together.
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Wednesday, February 23, 2005. 09:31AM
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zoe rose
Yeah, I gotta say I haven't found this to be the case: many agencies will hire senior people outside their organizations...but these are not unknown people either: either they have won awards or their work that year really stands out and thus appear to be "hot."
If you aren't working much or your work, through client control or other controls beyond yours, doesn't seem to do much in the way of scuttlebutt and interest, then I suggest you create the interest in those interviews...
My experience has been that agencies are willing to pay for outside senior help but only if there is a perceived value attached to that person's work...
Otherwise, there's hardly any reason to hire someone who'll cost them three times a junior's salray, or what have you.
So go fit the good fight and tell your story--bon chance!
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Check out GSD&M. They usually only want their higher ups (with a few exceptions) to have bigger market experience (acutally, if I were you I'd look into smaller markets - they crave experience from the outside). Don't know if they are hiring... but it's worth a look. And Austin is a cool place to live.
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The issue here is not age/perspective, but external knowledge transfer. Agencies and companies, (this is general in business, not just ad agencies) hire internally and promote up through the organization as they know that folks who have been working at the organization are 'brain-washed' in such a way that they will only want to do things that limit or hedge risk. When you start bringing new folks into the company, they have outside ideas and want to perform some risky maneuvers, whether it's a new type of advertising medium or a new type of creative strategy. When these new people come into the company, people feel threatened as they may lose their job or be out-classed by this new idea, or, more likely, it may fail and the company just lost a lot of money. Change is resisted in companies - age doesn't really matter. HOWEVER, please note this regarding most companies, yes, there are many companies who embrace change - Google for one.
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I always say age is relative, experience/education are key.
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