|
|
![]()
I had lunch with a friend today and had a very pertinent conversation with regards to pro bono work. To be brief, he was redesigning an organization's web site, gave them three options that blew doors on their existing site. They tried to play mix and match and make this green... blah blah. His response was, "Can you get a job making $60k a year as a new media art director?" "How about all of us interview at an interactive shop and see who would get hired?" Although it is a bit arrogant, it does drive the point home like a sledge hammer.
|
![]()
Adholes like, totally rulz, dudes! That's comm. major-speak for, "This website is really helpful." I work alone as an in-house designer for a company of about 75 people and was feeling very isolated till I stumbled upon it through craigslist.
|
![]()
These kinds of issues really rile my feathers. You are spending your precious time, creative energy and skills to help someone in need of and asking for your considerable talent and then they pull a lame stunt like this and dismiss you rather than working with you to create their vision. There is bound to be creative tension when two extremely creative groups work together and perhaps an intermediary (read account geek) would have helped the situation. But, as Alexis said so well, you have every right to fire them if they are not cooperating with you since you have far less to lose than them in this situation. Stand your ground, be proud of the work you do and don't let little bugs like this band annoy the hell out of your creative picnic.
|
![]()
You got some great advice. We all learned the hard way though... it's just nice to have this site to make you realize you aren't crazy. Set your rules.... and know when you can bend them and when you won't. Also, don't every be afraid to fire a client. It's your time and energy - you own that - especially when it's pro-bono. Good luck and hope that you learned what your deal breakers for clients are.
|
![]()
Sunday, February 27, 2005. 03:06AM
by
Ann Batt
You mean there is such a thing as a serious Comm. Major? I'd love to meet one. Just one. I have never met a Comm. Major who can actually communicate on the level that most humans expect. I've met many who grunt and scratch and then get pissed off because I didn't understand that "uhhngruh" meant, "I'm not sure I appreciate your opinion and I find you to be a complete moron not worthy of standing near me for fear that others might think we associate with each other." In any case, miscommunication is something to be celebrated. As Lefton said, "...Assign one person to be the final decision maker..." My own advice: Copy this blog into a journal and use it some day as an advertisement in that "band's" home town. But that's just my vindictive self shining through.
|
![]()
Rachelle--Sounds like it was the old design by committee problem. Another thing I do in any project is I make them assign one person to be the final decision maker on the project. You seem to have had 4 people probably all give you URLs and say "combine our group vision into something we all like." Certainly not an easy task! Otherwise, you wind up catering to their infighting and "try this, try that" crap. Whenever a client refuses to name a point person I send them an estimate that's triple what I'd charge, along with "This includes one round of design and 2 rounds of major changes, 2 rounds of minor changes." They usually get the point and ask me what I'll charge if I just deal with one person.
|
![]()
Kevin--Damn I shoulda charged for the launch party, woulda been twice as packed and I'd be loaded :-)
|
![]()
Thanks for all the feedback! Y'all rock.
Next time I'll lay all my cards on the table before any work starts.
Another thing that was so difficult about just designing was that this band liked my work, but the example websites they gave me were all so different. Constrasting styles, various levels of difficulty, some minimalist, some with lots of bells and whistles. Alarms should've gone off in my head from the beginning, but I think I was just too excited to get to do something cool for once instead of my day-to-day corporate stuff.
|
![]()
Don't hesitate to set your own rules and deadlines. You've got your own things when not working on their web site, and stand by that. Definitely don't do any free work, ever. Having been the director of a non-profit, I can tell you there's TONS of cash out there -- non-profits just cry poor all the time. Then, when you work for free, you see them shell a few hundred on a fancy lunch that even your successful corporation wouldn't be able to afford.
When you require even the smallest of fees, you instantly buy loyalty -- whether the non-profit is hiring you, or you're the non-profit offering a service. You run a free seminar, and 1/3 of the people who signed up actually show up. You charge $5, and the place will be packed.
|
![]()
Oh and I have to give props to fellow Adhole and serial entrepreneur Darren Herman, who back when he was 19 and running one of his first companies, helping out bands, I would do inexpensive design for him and he paid me on time and took my work with no changes and lots of compliments.
|
![]()
Ha, thanks Mary, and great ideas by all. After years of experience doing pro bono (I too love what I do) I have a few rules that avoids this. First of all, I make sure they look at my portfolio to see what kind of work I do. Sounds simple enough but you'd be surprised how many times people have wanted to hire me without seeing me work. I do this because I then explain to them that what I give them will be something like this. This is my style, it's not for everyone. Then I explain that, barring me doing anything bizarre, the work is being done on a take it or leave it basis. I'm not making changes to it--they should be happy they're getting some great work for free. And finally, I never do meetings in person with pro-bono clients, especially at a bar. If I did, it would be somewhere that was convenient to me. Laying down ground rules in the beginning sets the tone of the relationship--I've also had a lot of situations with "paying" clients who were individuals and flaked on something. They'd waste my time with some comps and decide they didn't really want to start a pet-sitting business after all. I have a client who runs a gallery and he's my lowest paying client and the biggest pain in the ass. He's a friend though, so I deal with him. Then he recommended me to one of his artists who was even cheaper and a bigger pain in the ass. Go figure. She wasn't a friend so I refused further work from her.
I'm glad to see you love design enough to do it pro bono. We ad Adholes have a few billions projects that we're behind on, so we're always wiling to take free help and we're really nice!
|
![]()
You should talk to Marc Lefton. He's designed a lot of websites for bands, and has learned to be very strict up front with exactly what they are getting, how many rounds of changes he will accomodate before charging more, etc before a project is started. Also, he requires all info, photos, music, etc up front.
|
![]()
Perhaps sounding somewhat cold ~ takin' the risk anyway ~ know when to fold 'em ~ state what you perceive is the "problem," solicit response(s); then, set a date to either "make it" or "break it."
|
![]()
Sometimes... nothing you do is working tho. And there is nothing wrong with admitting that to them, wishing them the best of luck, and firing them.
|
![]()
What Mark said. But I can understand where you are coming from. Client relations and communication can be difficult to begin with.. add in an odd working relationship (pro-bono), bars and directionless comm majors and you had a recipe for disaster. In a situation like this, you almost need to force the issue early. Gather them all someplace where you can think and lay it on the table. Make up a pretty rigid schedule and keep on them for their own commitments. Pro-bono work doesn't have to be the death of you either. Make sure your contract with them specifies some limits on your time (number of concept revisions, etc). If they start waffeling tell them firmly, but nicely - that they are quickly wearing through what you all agreed on in their contract, and that perhaps they needed to get their own ducks in a row, or you will start charging them. My $.02 anyway.
|
![]()
Friday, February 25, 2005. 03:54PM
by
Kim S
You know, something that always creeps into my head when faced with similiar situations is this: who are you doing this for? Them or you? If you find yourself again in this situation you could say: "hey look, I like you guys, and I really want to help you out, but I don't need to be doing this, so let me know right now because I don't really want to waste any more of your time. Like I said, I would love to help you do this but you need to be honest and let me know if you want me to stay on." If they say, yeah sure, but you still have a bad vibe, then you say: "hey listen, I'm getting a vibe here, I get that maybe you guys don't like my work, that's fine, good luck with your (whatever the project is) and maybe we'll hook up some other time." I say cut them loose before you get too far into the work. And give THEM the out, sometimes people just don't know how to tell someone they don't want them anymore, so you actually need to do it for them. Makes everyone feel less pressure afterwards...
|
![]()
Friday, February 25, 2005. 03:37PM
by
x x
That's one of the risks of pro-bono. They didn't feel they owed you anything. The client has pressure (in most cases) to accommodate you if it's coming out of their wallet. I'd do pro-bono for a non-profit like a new animal-rescue group...but a band can make money.
|
|
|
