Exclusive Highlight on TAXI Design Network Interview with Steven Heller

Steven Heller >> I’m researching the final portion of my book IRON FISTS: BRANDING THE TOTALITARIAN STATE (Phaidon Press) down at the Wolfsonian Museum in Miami. Also working on MFA Designer as Author related projects at the School of Visual Arts.

TAXI >> I find Stylepedia such an engaging read that I would imagine that it's really hard even for non-designers not to like it. How do you come up with ideas or concepts of books that can appeal to such a wide spectrum of audience outside of design?

Steven Heller >> Just luck I guess. I write things that interest me, and then I hope others will be interested. You can always tell when people are interested in your stories – they don’t snore openly. I know my writing isn’t for everyone, nor are my interests, but there are a few souls for whom it works.

TAXI >>What do you think is the main reason for designers who become stagnant?

Steven Heller >> Stagnant? Not sure what you mean. Some get into ruts. We all do. Some have a limited number of interests, and if your trying to be current that could be a problem. But I think stagnation is relative. There are times I feel as though I’m plowing the same dirt, and other times I feel things growing under my feet. It’s a cycle, I guess.

TAXI >> Do you think there's any relationship between success and a growing fear of losing the commercial viability that comes along?

Steven Heller >> Like I said, some people live to be current. Some people are current simply because their alive. I think if you worry too much about success or commercial viability you’ll always be second guessing the mythical “them” out there.

TAXI >> As a well-respected, and I imagine, well-liked teacher, you must have had refined the art of thin-slicing to its highest. Have there been instances when you didn't like something at the beginning but changed your mind later? What happens then?

Steven Heller >>Can’t say I’m well liked or not. But I certainly have changed my mind about a number of things. Like acquiring a taste for spicy food, it sometimes takes a while to see the true value in art, design, and people. I’ve written critically about things, like experimental typography of the 90s only to find value in some of it years later. I hope I don’t stick too dogmatically to anything I profess today. I don’t want to be a wuss, but I also feel I can be wrong too.

TAXI >> Just curious: You mentioned that "learning must occur in an inspired environment". Could you please share with us how you go about coaching inspiration to your students?

Steven Heller >>You can’t coach inspiration. You can only give students – or anyone else – opportunities to be inspired. So I introduce students to as much stimulants as possible, lecturers, show-and-tellers, exhibits, etc., etc. I’m down here in Miami researching at the Wolfsonian, and everyday I’m more inspired than the next. Environment is everything.

TAXI >> As someone who has quite a big influence on graphic design, could you share with us how your role has evolved from, say a decade ago?

Steven Heller >>Don’t know how big an influence I am. I just do what I do, and hope its not too ingrown or self-serving. My role over ten years has changed because ten years ago Lita Talarico and I started the School of Visual Arts MFA Designer as Author program and so we work hand and glove with students. Before that I’d lecture in a history of Illustration class for SVA’s MFA Illustration as Visual Essay dept, but that was all the student interaction I’d have.

TAXI >> You have so many good books out recently that it's hard to keep up with your rate of publishing. What would you say are your main sources of inspiration?

Steven Heller >>As I said, I’m here at the Wolfsonian. But my other inspirations are the people I work with. Lita Talarico, Mirko Ilic, Seymour Chwast, etc., etc.

TAXI >> Iron Fists: Branding the Totalitarian State" is about graphic design as a propaganda tool. You also interviewed Mr Milton Glaser in Design of Dissent. What sort of environments do you think graphic dissent flourishes best in?

Steven Heller >>Dissent requires tension. Tension demands opposition. We live in an America where our foreign policy is killing the spirit of the nation. This is a good environment for dissent.

TAXI >>How important is it for graphic designers to continue exercising their right to intervene within social democracies?

Steven Heller >>Designers should do something to intervene with their cultures lest they become irrelevant. Since we live in a democracy, designers should take professional and personal roles.

TAXI >> What do you think is the greatest obstacle for any expression of dissent, whether in graphic design or in other areas?

Steven Heller >>In a word: Censorship. In two words: Government Interference. In three words: Fear of clients.

TAXI >> As an active proponent of the graphic design's civic conscience, what do you think should be the key motivation behind any expression of dissent?

Steven Heller >>Passion, anger, reason.

TAXI >> Could you do TAXI Design Network a favour by gazing for a moment into your crystal ball, and telling us what's going to be resurgent in graphic design for the next couple of years?

Steven Heller >>I’d like to oblige. But I’m not that well endowed. The future is not something I can predict. Although at times I’d like to know whether my son will be happy in the future.

TAXI >> Which WORD do you think would reside and reverberate in the design world for the next 10 years?

Steven Heller >>I have no idea.

Exclusive Highlight on TAXI Design Network Interview with Stefan Sagmeister

TAXI >>Given your vast experience, what kind of environment do you think graphic design flourishes best in? Stefan Sagmeister >> I only have a very obvious answer: Design florishes in a public environment. I became a designer because the fact that our output becomes part of the life of people seemed very appealing to me. TAXI >> What is the most important thing to you as a designer?

Stefan Sagmeister >> I am still mostly concerned with design that has the ability to touch the viewers heart. We see so much professionally done and well executed graphic design around us, beautifully illustrated and masterfully photographed, nevertheless, almost all of it leaves me (and I suspect many other viewers) cold.

There is just so much fluff: Well produced, tongue in cheek, pretty, fluff. Nothing that moves you, nothing to think about, some is informing, but still all fluff. Our goal is to touch somebody's heart with design (so hard to do though).

TAXI >> It has come to a point where almost everyone who's interested in graphic design is looking to you to see what you're going to do next. How does that affect you, if at all?

Stefan Sagmeister >> I don't believe that statement at all (this is not modesty, I just truly utterly don't think this to be the reality). So, therefore it does not affect me.

TAXI >> More importantly, how do you manage the weight and burden of such sky-high expectations?

Stefan Sagmeister >> I very much try not to design for other designers, (design for designers turns out to fairly boring) but for the audience I am talking to with a particular project. That audience has no such expectations.

TAXI >>I'm quite sure you've mastered the fine art of thin-slicing through project offers. How do you decide if an assignment is going to be something good?

Stefan Sagmeister >> Like everybody else: Is the content interesting? Is there a reason for this product/service to exist? Are the people involved nice people? Do I want to spend some significant time with them? Is there a proper deadline and a proper budget?

TAXI >>Have there been instances when you got tired and just wanted to give up trying to touch/move someone since it's so hard? What do you do to keep yourself inspired then?

Stefan Sagmeister >> Sure, I get tired and am lazy. And I have given up on projects. I have done mediocre work. And after a couple of those, I get so antsy that the energy comes back.

TAXI >>How different is the Stefan Sagmeister from 10 years ago than from the current one?

Stefan Sagmeister >> 10 years ago the sign: Style = fart was still hanging in the studio. Then my thinking was that style is unimportant and just hot air: Experience proved otherwise: I discovered that stylistic and formal questions do play an important role when communicating any content. I still don't favor pieces that rely on style as their main means of communication (in the same way I don't enjoy talking to well dressed stupid people).

Also, 10 years ago we concentrated on design for the music industry. Considering music does not play the same role in my life now as it did then, (as well as there being so many other fantastic fields to explore) I changed the direction of the studio to reflect this change: We are now spending 25% of our time designing for the art world, 25% of the science world, 25% for social causes and the final 25% regular corporate design.

TAXI >>You seem so fearless in your undertakings and are constantly push in the boundaries of acceptability. Surely there must be some fear and considerations after you complete a deeply satisfying but disturbing project?

Stefan Sagmeister >> I am a scaridy cat, just like many other people. I am never fearless. The few times that I do have guts I have to talk myself into it.

TAXI >>Do you feel you've earned the respect that you wanted?

Stefan Sagmeister >> I have gotten a lot of respect over the years, if I have earned it is not for me to judge.

TAXI >>Lastly, how do you feel about being perceived as a design superstar?

Stefan Sagmeister >> 1: My favorite fame-in-design quote comes from Chip Kidd ("famous designer is like famous electrician"). In my opinion, electricians and designers enjoy the most desirable kind of fame, because they are to a large extent in charge of it. When famous electricians decide to visit electricians conferences, there will be pads on their backs and egos will be stroked, but outside of these conferences they will be able to go anywhere without intrusions.

2: I have worked with numerous actual stars, famous clients whose fame -up close - did not look like much fun at all: If you walk into a Starbucks with Lou Reed, the whole place goes quiet. People turn around. They whisper.

TAXI >>Which WORD do you think would reside and reverberate in the design world for the next 10 years?

Stefan Sagmeister >> Ointment.

Exclusive Highlight on TAXI Design Network Interview with Chip Kidd

TAXI >>Given that your website says "Good is Dead", what are your thoughts on Mr Milton Glaser's statement that "good is the enemy of great" Chip Kidd >> The statements are virtually the same. Mine just sounds more like Nietzsche. TAXI >>What do you think of the sentiment that design has become a commodity? Chip Kidd >> When wasn't it? Do you think that Michaelangelo didn't get paid for the Sistine Chapel ceiling?

TAXI >>As a graphic artist, what do you think is the most important factor to consider before accepting a client?

Chip Kidd >> Whether or not the job sounds interesting, and if it does, do I think I can meet the challenge? And also, does the client seem to be (or not to be) an asshole?

TAXI >>Your interview with Mr Milton Glaser was really funny and insightful. How was the experience like? The subject of death came up towards the end of that interview. What do you reckon is the best way to die?

Chip Kidd >> The experience was very much an honor for me, as I could remember very clearly sitting in the very same room twenty years prior, as a snot-nosed kid with portfolio in hand, waiting to see one of his assistants to show him my college work.

Undoubtedly the best way to die is in mind-orgasm. I'll let you know.

TAXI >>I understand that the Wind-up Bird Chronicle is one of your favourite projects. The author is known for his surreal and sometimes satirical commentary on modern society. Have these qualities attracted you to this project?

Chip Kidd >> I don't think of Murakami so much as a satirist as he is an extraordinary craftsman who weaves completely compelling tales that cannily blend Japanese and Western sensibilities. What I like so much about Wind-Up Bird in particular as a design is the way all the components came together. It is one of the few novels for which I designed every aspect of to the best effect.

TAXI >>I am intrigued by the use of colour and imagery for the design of Wind-up Bird Chronicle. Could you share with us the overall sensibility that was intended for that book?

Chip Kidd >> I wanted a sense of many layers coming together to make a very complex whole, which I thought was a major theme of the book, or at least one of its prominent qualities. You have to hold the book in just the right light to see everything that's really there.

TAXI >>You mentioned that to write a book, one has to know a) What you want to say and b) How you want to say it. Is there anything in particular that Chip Kidd wants to say badly?

Chip Kidd >> I say everything badly. Just read The Cheese Monkeys. With that book I wanted to be the first to write a graphic design-based novel, and as far as I know, I was.

TAXI >>Are you still watching Law & Order for plot inspirations? Or have you switched to CSI already?

Chip Kidd >> I can't remember when or why I said that. I don't write crime fiction (yet, anyway), so I don't get plots from Law & Order (which yes, I do still watch), but what I admire about it is not only it's consistently high quality (over close to 20 years now) but how wonderfully unpredictable it is. You can never be sure where it's going or how it will end.

TAXI >>Which WORD do you think would reside and reverberate in the design world for the next 10 years?

Chip Kidd >> INVOICE

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